debka_notion | Why I Don't Understand Why People Call This Place So Liberal

Why I Don't Understand Why People Call This Place So Liberal

As I was getting my lunch today, Steve comes over to me, takes a look at my shirt, which says "Brandeis University Conservative Organization" on the front and "Hebrew is Gender Specific, BUCO is not" on the back, and says to me "You know, we have a shirt like that for BOO too, only on the back it says 'G-d doesn't hate us'". (BOO is the Brandeis Orthodox Organization.) I tried to joke back something, but I was rather offended. It isn't like this is the first time he's said something offensive to me either: last time it was a whole string of bigotted comments about Indians, Pakistanis, Muslims, Asians and other immigrants. I'm getting to the point where I really want to do something about it, but I'm not really sure what to do. File some sort of complaint to the student senate about religious persecution? It seems a bit ridiculous here, but I'm not sure what else to call this one. Talk to the Orthodox rabbi here? I don't know what he'd do... Ideas?

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That particular "Steve" is not going to be around for more than a few days longer. I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, he's offensive, but he's just trying to get a rise out of you. Just try to avoid him as much as possible.

I'm sad I didn't see you at lunch! Shabbat Shalom!

Unfortunately, there's a difference between "liberal" and "accepting." The terms are not (by any means) mutually exclusive, but they don't define each other, either.
--Tova

Let's say there's 2,999 very liberal liberals and 1 conservative at Brandeis. The conservative makes his views apparent. This doesn't make the liberals not liberal, and Brandeis as a whole not liberal. Tova's right, though.

I stopped considering Brandeis liberal a while back, about when a bunch of us were trying to get people to support the EFF (http://eff.org/), and we had people tell us such things as "I don't believe in free speech" and "I don't believe in civil liberties." It's the same kind of bad-apple logic I just argued against, but it's probably a better measure than bigotry. I also remember hearing something about the Brandeis Republicans being rather large, but I think they choose the largest possible membership figure to report, and in doing so, report such people as me as members, so that doesn't mean quite so much.

I second Tova's comment.

I love the BaRuCh shirts. I know I've seen the BUCO shirts around too, but I really can't remember what they look like. But I like what they say. =P

I'm sorry, my friend and I can't figure out what was offensive about the exchange.

I think it might not be a bad idea to talk to the orthodox adviser. When Steve makes remarks like the ones you describe, it paints the entire orthodox community a very ugly color, and that community's leader has a right to know if such things are happening. Even if names are omitted, which I suspect they would be, he might be able to address the issue by way of a d'var Torah or lecture of some sort.

where to begin

if your problem is with one particular steve, id take doodah's advice and let him leave and not worry about him any longer. talking to your rabbi is another good way to address the problem.

if, on the other hand, youre frustrated with what you see as more endemic problem, id write a paper about it. diagnose the problem, describe its ill effects, theorize a little bit. hell, make it a manifesto even; manifestoes are fun and cathartic, and, if written clearly and concisely, can be easily employed in future arguments. you know, its just laying out how you feel about something. be sure to use grand language.

i do think of brandeis as one of the most liberal-as-a-dirty-word campuses in the country. 'liberal' is often used as a catchall for progressive/leftist thought, but that isnt really what it means. i guess it was phil ochs had a great song called 'love me im a liberal.' (http://www.lyricscrawler.com/song/65145.html) you ever see the original stepford wives? near the end when the neighborhood gossip says that a black couple is moving to stepford and why not? its the most liberal town in connecticut, after all. ha! perfect. my own relationship with liberalism is somewhat conflicted, certainly it was revered by both my parents and most all the adults i grew up around, but jack kennedys liberalism is as dead as he is, and that may not be such a bad thing. i just think its interesting how people often use 'liberal' to mean more liberal than liberal means.

anyhow, seems to me your issue is with bigotry and malice, and to that i can only wish you luck. there are some people out there who seriously need some sense smacked into them. when jon stewart had his big hurah on crossfire (http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/iMovieTheater231.html) some folk i know where making fun of him for hammering the old 'play nice' button, and i dont think the object should be that old bourgeois give-anything-but-offense ideal, but christ, its hard to have any kind of meaningful exchange without civil participants.

God doesn't hate you guys, either.

and most languages are gender specific, ISTR that English is the anomaly.

:-)

I think that's rude, but then again I don't think anyone with a BUCO shirt could complain too hard. But the BUCO and BaRuCh shirts are not exactly oh-so-loving of the Orthodox. (And as people have pointed out to me, BUCO's is more mean-spirited that BaRuCh's)

I would question whether or not you got offended too quickly (rave to follow).

The other way to look at what he said was: "You know, we have a shirt like that for BOO too, only on the back it says 'G-d doesn't [ACTUALLY] hate us'" -- that makes a HUGE difference. I was not there, but anything is possible.

"I'm getting to the point where I really want to do something about it, but I'm not really sure what to do. File some sort of complaint to the student senate about religious persecution? It seems a bit ridiculous here, but I'm not sure what else to call this one." -- My suggestion: talk to him about it; very little gets solved in silence, and even less with authorities.

Huzzah!

The Vortex

Wow! So many opinions!

I don't think the BUCO shirt is rude at all. I do find the slogan to be quite odd because, really, how can one, unless one is transgendered or genderless, not be "gender-specificied"? I imagine that BUCO recognizes who is a male and who is a female within their minyan, regardless of whether they care to do anything about it. I thought about the shirt for far too long in women & the bible (easy enough to do in that class) and now giggle whenever I see someone wearing it. I don't think many of the people wearing the shirts are aiming to be genderless - or vaguely gendered - just equally gendered.

And there's nothing wrong with that or rude about that in the slightest. It's not "we're equal AND WE'RE BETTER" or "we're equal, you're not, YOU'RE WORSE", it's just - blah. It's not a shirt about anyone but themselves. Which makes sense. As it's a BUCO shirt. And hey! It's a shirt! It's only a shirt! What about BOO's "top ten ways you know that you're in BOO" shirt from simchas torah '03 that offended half of the people in BOO? :)

(aaaand...i'm done rambling. hooray!)

Interesting...
Since there are other points against the Steve in question, I'll try not to defend him. But I will state that my interpretation of his statement was rather different from yours.
I found in my time at Brandeis that if you're Orthodox and involved in a religious discussion with a BUCO or Baruch member, you're required to be quiet and not argue your point because it would be wrong to suggest that Orthodoxy is right and someone else was wrong.
I saw this comment as a person complaining about this frustration. Telling a person wearing a shirt stating "Hebrew is Gender-Specific; BUCO is Not" that 'Hey, I'm Orthodox and God DOESN'T hate me, really God doesn't, despite what you seem to think judging by the social rules about what I'm allowed to say!' is an expression of frustration.
I wouldn't make that expression, because I do believe in keeping my mouth shut. But what I found at Brandeis was that when people in other branches of Judaism were telling me about their branches, I had to keep my mouth shut or hear my views be taken apart, mocked, and accused of nearly any crime you can name. Sometimes I had to hear it anyhow. Walking through minefields is good practice, but there were times I wished I could defend myself.
God doesn't hate me, and I believe God doesn't hate my views. But many religious liberals at Brandeis seem to think God does. And Maya, if you were one of them I wouldn't be writing this to you, so don't get concerned. *hugs*

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