More on July 4

The response to that 4th of July contemplation really struck me with how differently people feel about America and about being an American/citizen of the US of A, more accurately. There seems to be a pretty strong gap between something that parallels the optomists and the pessimists, for the most part- between the people who believe in celebrating the structure and the ideas, and the people who are disgusted with the current reality. The difference between Steve's father who eats hotdogs, a food he dislikes, on July 4th because they're an American food, and people who see the current leadership and behavior as objectionable enough that it's enough to make them mad at the whole thing, enough that they either don't celebrate, or try to avoid the whole thing.

Most of all, it gave me some interesting looks at what people see as the key characteristic of America. For those who see the structure of government as the key part of what makes the USA what it is, then yeah- it makes it easy to celebrate: it's a pretty neat system, over all. Not perfect, but as a work in progress, it works. If you're looking at the USA as a function of what it's been doing lately, and who's running it right now, it's a different story. If Nixon and Vietnam on up to the present have disgusted someone with the course of American behavior and leadership- then what the heck is there to celebrate?

THe more interesting definitions of America and Americans that I found were the one that seemed to include even certain foods as "American" and the other one or two that seemed more culturally based than based on ideas or big events. Maybe because that's the easiest thing for me to connect to. But Steve's objection to celebrating July 4th because Americans are so apathetic about their leadership/politics makes inherent sense to me. Perhaps because I tend to be so apathetic about it myself, or at least I feel like I am. (It isn't like I don't vote, don't think about the issues at least some, etc... Just that I don't read up on candidates and issues like I ought to before I start listening to people talk about it, etc, and that I don't feel strongly actively patriotic.) ANd it seems more like a cultural complaint than a political one, when it's processed- it isn't a desire for the other people to agree with Steve, it's a desire for them to have opinions and act on them, whether they agree or not- and the belief that not having/forming opinions is a problem. Similarly, as far as my own objections, mainstream American culture isn't something with which I align myself so strongly- I don't watch TV, I don't particularly like current American pop music, I don't like barbecue. Whereas I do spend so much time with foreign sorts of stuff- Israeli Dance, non-western music... I'm not sure what about American culture I have to particularly celebrate.

More on July 4

The response to that 4th of July contemplation really struck me with how differently people feel about America and about being an American/citizen of the US of A, more accurately. There seems to be a pretty strong gap between something that parallels the optomists and the pessimists, for the most part- between the people who believe in celebrating the structure and the ideas, and the people who are disgusted with the current reality. The difference between Steve's father who eats hotdogs, a food he dislikes, on July 4th because they're an American food, and people who see the current leadership and behavior as objectionable enough that it's enough to make them mad at the whole thing, enough that they either don't celebrate, or try to avoid the whole thing.

Most of all, it gave me some interesting looks at what people see as the key characteristic of America. For those who see the structure of government as the key part of what makes the USA what it is, then yeah- it makes it easy to celebrate: it's a pretty neat system, over all. Not perfect, but as a work in progress, it works. If you're looking at the USA as a function of what it's been doing lately, and who's running it right now, it's a different story. If Nixon and Vietnam on up to the present have disgusted someone with the course of American behavior and leadership- then what the heck is there to celebrate?

THe more interesting definitions of America and Americans that I found were the one that seemed to include even certain foods as "American" and the other one or two that seemed more culturally based than based on ideas or big events. Maybe because that's the easiest thing for me to connect to. But Steve's objection to celebrating July 4th because Americans are so apathetic about their leadership/politics makes inherent sense to me. Perhaps because I tend to be so apathetic about it myself, or at least I feel like I am. (It isn't like I don't vote, don't think about the issues at least some, etc... Just that I don't read up on candidates and issues like I ought to before I start listening to people talk about it, etc, and that I don't feel strongly actively patriotic.) ANd it seems more like a cultural complaint than a political one, when it's processed- it isn't a desire for the other people to agree with Steve, it's a desire for them to have opinions and act on them, whether they agree or not- and the belief that not having/forming opinions is a problem. Similarly, as far as my own objections, mainstream American culture isn't something with which I align myself so strongly- I don't watch TV, I don't particularly like current American pop music, I don't like barbecue. Whereas I do spend so much time with foreign sorts of stuff- Israeli Dance, non-western music... I'm not sure what about American culture I have to particularly celebrate.