Conservative Movement Metaphor

[debka_notion]

I was talking with shirei_shibolim at breakfast this morning, and in discussing the Conservative movement and the "big umbrella" description of said movement, I likened it more to an eiruv- a bunch of different buildings held together by a legal fiction, and was told that the description was worth writing down. So there it is, if anyone finds it interesting, or for when I someday want to retrieve it.

Comments

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

For post-denominationalers, affiliation with anything Conservative is (or ought to be) poison, from both institutional and religious perspectives. (I'm not saying they shouldn't take the best of the CM, just like they'd take the best of Orthodoxy, Reform, etc.) Institutionally, it's a lumbering giant with cancer, and you don't want that to fall on your head. And religiously, it's got too many "rules" and inherited attitudes from a by-gone era. Finally, the name itself is poison to Orthodox people, to people who grew up in the movement and hated it, and to anybody else. IMO, it'd be smarter for (at least the halakhic) PDers to co-opt Orthodoxy (or Open Orthodoxy, or whatever) if they don't want to invent a new label. At least Orthodox is a pretty good brand-name -- successful, good communal life, intellectually serious (in terms of Talmud Torah, at least) -- and when combined with some modifier like "egalitarian" is a slam-dunk for many (not all, obviously).

[jonahrank.livejournal.com]

I'm unsure as to why affiliation with anything Conservative is or ought to be poison for the post-denominational Jew. I'm also not sure either what you mean by a lumbering giant with cancer or by there being too many "rules" from a by-gone era.

Another thought: the name "Conservative" is not the most accurate name in terms of "Conservative"'s literal meaning, but the name "Orthodox" has a funny connotation to it - especially in that "Orthodox" historically came about as a derogatory term for those who adhered to Jewish tradition rather than reforming.

I agree that YCT and other "open Orthodox" groups might be offering some very important opportunities though for halakhic observant Conservative Jews.

"Egalitarian" is also an inaccurately used term most of the time, I agree.

However, I have come to the conclusion that "Conservative" and "Egalitarian" and many other imprecise terms are more socially acceptable and more understandable to most people than anything else I can currently think of as alternatives.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

The CM institutionally is a drag -- it's a top-down bureaucracy that, like all such institutions, drags down anything innovative. (The CY is a pretty good example, particularly in the way they forced out R. Wald.) The rules I'm talking about include a rigid orthodoxy about liturgical changes, particularly involving korbanot; driving on Shabbat; and a shul-centered style of davening and communal life. People may want to reject things in their personal life, but if the institution from which they gain succor is rejectionist in its approach to tradition (as opposed to creative and reinterpretationist) then very quickly people realize there's no grounding to be gained there.

Point taken about the names, but no one cares about history. (Yet another lesson for the CM to learn.) What matters is the present connotation, and Orthodox is way up and Conservative is way down, at least in terms of communal life.

"I agree that YCT and other "open Orthodox" groups might be offering some very important opportunities though for halakhic observant Conservative Jews."

YCT, not so much, but the independent groups are pretty good.

[jonahrank.livejournal.com]

Offhand, I'm still not sure what you mean by it dragging down anything innovative, and I do admit not to be familiar with the story of Rabbi Wald.

I'm not sure that Conservative Judaism really has a liturgical orthodoxy. I recall hearing Rabbi Neil Gillman saying that he includes much of the sacrifical references. Also, Rabbi Martin Cohen recently published a Siddur for his congregation, Shelter Rock Jewish Center, in which sacrifical references are included. Furthermore, the Mahzor that the RA is currently working on will include the phrase "ואשי ישראל" among other things. I am not sure that these examples per se go against a rigid orthodoxy as the liturgy of many congregations is to each its own, in Conservative Jewish communities I am familiar with. Each of the Conservative Jewish siddurim and mahazorim have different liturgical philosophies and styles.

Driving on Shabbat is an issue which Rabbi Joel Roth is not happy about. Furthermore, every rabbi is the Halakhic decisor for the community for which "the Driving Teshuvah" may apply or not apply. This is not a Movement-wide thing as far as I can tell.

I am also a bit unsure as to what would be the functional alternative to a shul-centered style of davening and communal life for a community of over 600 families.

Also, I am under the impression that many people I know care about history - especially the history students and political science students I know.

I also feel that there are strong Conservative Jewish communities, as I personally belong to one where approximately 200 people attend Shabbat services; minyanim exist through the week easily; congregants may together study Torah, Talmud, Heschel, and much else; shomer-Shabbat families visit each other on Shabbat; and independent minyanim even meet at the shul. These qualities are just a fraction of the ritual aspects of my own community, and there are many other ways of measuring the richness of the community.

I would be curious to know what else besides YCT would be offering important opportunities for Halakhic observant Conservative Jews. In this category, it seems to me that as far as finding a Rabbinical school for males anyway, YCT might be the only option. Of course, there's far more to Judaism than just Rabbinical school, but I am curious to know what other groups seem to be the important open Orthodox groups currently around.

[margavriel.livejournal.com]

Be very careful about using a phrase such as "lumbering giant with cancer". For all the faults that the Movement has, it's still a giant. It has far more affiliates than your own "post-denominational" Judaism, and certainly far more than my own "Relativist Orthodoxy". For now, at any rate, it's a fact on the ground. They must be doing something right to get all those members....

(And yes, I know that their numbers are shrinking. But they're still huge.)

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

It's like a vector -- direction sometimes counts for more than magnitude. The bigger they are, the harder they fall, and all that.