A choice for Practicality

[debka_notion]

Am skipping the Orthodox minyan's dawn minyan tomorrow (well, Tuesday morning) because it's too much bother to daven, then come back and repeat shema with tallit and tfillin. If I could find an isolated spot, I'd be tempted to just go with egal ritualgear and all, but that would Not be nice. And I need the sleep. But I did go to mincha-maariv today: and was not the only woman who stayed for maariv- there was one other. But I couldn't hear any of the other women respond to anything. ANyone know if there's a reason why they don't respond audibly to say, kaddish? Or Amen to anything? As it is, it feels like this weird cultural silencing, and it weirds me out.

Comments

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

There's no halakhic reason why they shouldn't respond audibly, and several why they should. My guess would be either "cultural silencing" or just quiet people.

As for the tallit/tefillin discussion . . . I would advise against. Shaking things up only makes sense if the shaken subsequently re-think the matter. Unless BOO has changed a lot since I was last there, this is unlikely to happen. You'd probably be taken as an angry feminist trying to offend people.

Incidentally, reciting sh'ma while wearing tallit and tefillin is highly preferable, but not required. Tallit, tefillin and sh'ma are three related but separate mitzvot. If one were to say sh'ma at shacharit, put on tefillin after lunch and wear a tallit at minchah, one would be yotze for everything.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

I wasn't actually thinking that I would do the tallit and tfillin thing at BOO- I'm willing to rock boats, but not that big of a rock.

For some reason I thought that tfillin had to include shema to count, at least. Thanks for the clarification. That's really rather handy should I decide to hit BOO shacharit in the future. Although I'd rather do the three together... I wonder whether it is preferable to dod them together or to daven with a minyan... Probably the latter. Probably won't be too much of an issue- I still rather need the sleep in the morning for a few days of the week...

[nuqotw.livejournal.com]

While tallit and t'fillin are technically separate mitzvot from praying it is heavily heavily preferable that you say sh'ma with them.

There is a gemara somewhere that says that one who says sh'ma without t'fillin is acting like a false witness against himself.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

So by that gemara, all orthodox women are false witnesses? Except that they can't be witnesses anyways... Or does it specifically refer to men?

What if one had the intention to put them on later? Like lighting Shabbat candles wit hteh intention to take Shabbat on oneself only after one has davened mincha with the community?

Sorry- just had to be stupidly provocative. Don't actually mean it that way. But I'm not sure how else to understand the extension of that.

[nuqotw.livejournal.com]

The gemara refers to men. (I think that's clear.) But if you accept the obligation of t'fillin, you have to accept all of it. The halakhot in this matter are complex, and I'm not terribly familiar with them.

[nuqotw.livejournal.com]

It's not a question of whether a minyan needs shaking. It's definitely not okay to rock the minyan for the sake of rocking it. It's a question of what you need from the minyan, and what you bring to it.

I attend minyan with the notion that I am a Jew, and I go to daven. It does not hurt anyone if I put on t'fillin and tallit. It does not alter their t'fillah. It does not have halakhic impact on the minyan. If my actions rock the boat, fine; if they don't that's also fine. I'm there to daven, not to alter anyone's views.

If a guy is offended, he shouldn't be looking through the mechitzah anyway. :)

[thevortex.livejournal.com]

And if a girl is offended? =P

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

The guys shouldn't be looking in that context- it's offending the other girls that I worry about.