Something of a Joke for Dorky People

[debka_notion]

So, with all this business of creation going around online and differently in my Maimonides class, a thought. So if each of the 6 days of creation took longer than one of our days- then how do we know they didn't take so long that the whole biblical time period was still the day of the creation of man (going with the first creation story's numbering, since that works better, and seems to be the one everyone works from- how Do you harmonize the second one? I know it's doable, never tried it myself. Guess I should.), and this currently is G-d's Shabbat- and That's why G-d hasn't been interfering in the world much lately: it's against whatever qualifies as melakhot for G-d.

That said, this involves accepting a G-d who exists in time, which I'm not ready to do. For G-d to be omnipotent/omnipresent/omniscient, G-d pretty much has to surpass all those dimensional limitations- and Time is just one of them. But well- the idea amused me.

Comments

[ryuutchi.livejournal.com]

I think it works. God's currently taking a nap. Maybe watching cartoons, if S/He's not terribly observant...

[zodiacmg.livejournal.com]

if this is currently G-d's nap, then why did G-d interact with people all the way through the prophets? and with regard to the question about time. As i understand it, time is defined by change - if there is change there is time. And as far as I know, in order for something/someone/G-d to do anything or change anything in our reality, that would require a change at least in the relationship between us and G-d... which would seem to indicate that G-d operates in time. Whether or not G-d is bound by the rules of time is a different story altogether, but as far as I can tell, G-d operates or interacts within time, which would ostensibly mean that to some degree G-d changes...

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Maybe the prophets were the things G-d did right before Shabbat started? THe last-minute turning on of Shabbat timers and the like? Either that or you interpret the prophets as part of the Biblical time period.

G-d of course can operate in time- but I can also draw on a two-dimensional piece of paper. But I am more than 2 dimension, in a way that makes the idea of defining me by two definitions inherently flawed. Similarly, difining G-d by 3 or 4 dimensions is inherently flawed: we have no way of perceiving the additional dimensions that encompass any sort of real conception of G-d. I think it would be more accurate to describe G-d as operating On time than In time. G-d can encompass time without being bound by it the way that we are. G-d can perhaps perceive time in a way vaguely analagous the the way we perceive a 1-3 dimensional image. That make sense? The only image I can give to describe the idea isn't quite what I want, but if you read Heinlein's Life-line (a short story), it has this description of people at any time as a cross-section of this pink snake-like thing that exists across the time of their lifespan...

[zodiacmg.livejournal.com]

my only question - or rather the question of the moment - is if G-d operates on time (as opposed to late?) then does G-d change in someway? and if so, they how can we maintain that G-d is perfect? there are of course potential answers that i have come across, but i do not know how well they hold up... what are your thoughts?

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

G-d doesn't have to change, because G-d encompases all of G-d's states at once, even though which aspects that people see might seem to change over time. This fits well with G-d as "ehyeh asher ehyeh" which I've heard translated (somewhat liberally) as "I am what I will be", which I think is a fabulous conception of a timeless G-d. Or maybe not so much timeless as so full of time that it becomes irrelevant to G-d.

Perhaps (and this is an idea that I haven't thought through at all- just came to me) G-d sheds time almost? G-d continuously creates the world by emitting time? But then what about before time? That would involve a change in G-d, which is problematic.

Miracles & creation

[yemeknight.livejournal.com]

This possibility, that this era is God's shabbat, has crossed my mind more than once. In which case God is currently enjoying his creation.

But I don't think that miracles and prophets count as work. Making the world was real work. Miracles and prophets are toys. I mean, if creation of such things as species and planets is work, how insignificant are we beside that?

Re: Miracles & creation

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

There's work that takes lots of effort, and then there's work that's say, vacuuming- and the latter is still work, although it takes little in the way of creativity, skill or intense effort. And that's exactly the sort of clean up that one could analagize the prophets to... If I wanted to push the idea, which I don't, not seriously.

Re: God's actions

[yemeknight.livejournal.com]

What you say is that if God does anything, it's work. When we speak, does that count as work? No. So why does God's speech count as work?

If you think of God as the Divine Toymaker, then why shouldn't God play with his toys on the Sabbath? He's not Creating anything. Just messing around.

Re: God's actions

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Well, we've got from Torah that creation counted as work in some way, I think. And that was done by speech, at least at the level of pshat. More than this I know not. But well- just like some of our toys aren't ok to be used on Shabbat, maybe some of G-d's toys aren't either. Or maybe G-d just has more interesting things to do.