Fantasy Inspired Theology/Philosophy (I think)

[debka_notion]

So, I was reading James Branch Cabell's The Silver Stallion (a gift from my uncle Richard, who tends to see it as a bit of his responsibility/opportunity to introduce me to good SF/F since I got started on his old books that he didn't want to bother taking with him when he moved out of his parents' house permanently, hence all the stuff that didn't quite make the cut in his mind). And it talks about a character about whom the fates say nothing. I see a bit of a problem there: if the fates dictate anything at all about the lives of people around him, they have to impact his life: otherwise he's likely to mess up the stuff they did dictate, or at the very least be influenced by the lives of those who do live by fate.

It rather reminds me of either the idea that only the major events of one's life are unavoidable, and the rest is free will- as far as I can tell, the sort of usual way of compromising between the two extremes, or an idea I had that probably holds absolutely no water whatsoever, that fate applies to some people's lives, and free will to others, except in the ways that the lives of those bound by fate influences the lives of those with free will. That inherently priviledges fate over free will though. Dunno- it was an explanation of a feeling originally, I never thought it through intellectually much. But it seemed sort of semi-relevant here. Once you posit a fate-creating force, anyone unbound by it seems to be sort of problematic, at least as far as I can see things.

Comments

[doctor-nine.livejournal.com]

Hello, Maya's livejournal!

Once you posit a fate-creating force, anyone unbound by it seems to be sort of problematic, at least as far as I can see things.

It's problematic for the fates, perhaps, but not necessarily for the individual, who would be restoring to herself the potential for an unlimited set of possible futures, rather than the restricted set that limited choices within fate would offer her. The disruption of "fate" that this would cause would also increase the liberty of the individuals around her. Of course, I'm saying this as someone with some suspicion of anything that "feels like fate" -- to the extreme that when I start to feel a sense of deja vu, I usually make a conscious effort to do the exact opposite of what feels like it should be coming!

Let me throw this at you as well: what compelled you to write this? Was it your own initiative? Can you really know if it was or not?

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Unless that person for some reason Wanted to be bound by fate in some way (as this character at least sort of wanted to, or at least to be able to go to the fates and get knowledge of what would happen to him, regardless of whether or not he'd really rather be bound by fate itself or not). I'm saying that it would cause problems for those people in between, where neither fate nor free will would truly have hold of them, and what would there be to determine which would win out at any point? If life as determined by fate is like a rug, it would be like a hole in the rug, and a hole that was almost actively trying to undo the rug, just by the nature of its existence.

Why is it that you distrust fate so much? (Of course I'm saying this as a person who tends to think that fate/free will is in some spheres at least, irrelevant- I believe in a G-d who exists outside of time in some ways, or for whom time is not at all the way you or I experience it, and therefore G-d's omniscience is irrelevant to our choice making, in some ways. Sometimes I believe that we live in one of a continually branching off series of universes also, so that regardless of which choice I made, I also made every other possible choice, which also sends the system for a bit of a loop, I think.

Can I know if any of it is true or not? No. Does it matter? To some extent, for my own theology/philosophy. For how I'm going to act? Not so much: even if I'm fated to make certain decisions, I'm also fated to do all the stuff leading to them- so I might as well act like I have free will.

[doctor-nine.livejournal.com]

The reason I would argue that the question of the existence or nonexistence of free will is relevant is that it has a very important effect on whether people have rights. Let's take the example of freedom of conscience. If the tendency for one person to be drawn to a particular religion (or no religion at all) is completely deterministic, either by the religion being passed down to them as a meme in childhood, by "fate," or even by divine inspiration, of what value is it to preserve an individual's right to choose a religion?

The existence of free will also has some bearing on many ideas about ethics. In fact, it could be argued no action would have any ethical quality at all if one was "fated" to do it in advance -- there would be no real intent behind those actions. In one sense, nobody could justly be held accountable for anything.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm with you there- I don't particularly believe in fate exactly.

But well, if a person is inherently drawn to some religion or another, how could you possibly prevent them from doing so? WOuldn't you Have to allow them to participate in any religion they were drawn to, rather than having the chance to legislate choice at all?