(no subject)

[debka_notion]

"That said, communities will have their silly standards. Wouldn't it be easier on everyone if it were made clear that hats, headscarves, and the like are just as acceptable as kippot?" -navelofwine in another forum

In fact, most other things might be better than kippot I'd think- I've had people make assorted comments about the insufficient size of many kippot. The advantage that I see in kippot is simply that they fit more easily with tfillin. I'm glad I started with a kippah when I started wearing tfillin, since arranging the tfillah shel rosh around a scarf takes some effort.

I do find it interesting that it seems much easier to feminize male clothing (take very clearly feminine kippot, women's suits, etc) than to make female clothing acceptable for men. Women have more options in clothing in general, and here it's no exception. Our society lets women take and alter men's clothing with fairly little fuss. But for a man to take and alter something originally female seems to happen much less. I mean, there's a word "to feminize", but as far as I know, not "to masculinize". It is interesting that egalitarianism seems to stay so rooted in public space, or public action- prayer, the synagogue, the workplace... Inside more personal areas, things change less- women still light the Shabbat candles in general (well, when I'm home, we have 2-4 candles, with 2-4 people lighting. If I light alone, I light 2. If I light with Mom, we each light 2. If my father or sister joins, Mom lights two and the other person and I light one. If it's all four of us, we each light one. But halakha is not a real concern for my family.), no one has suggested that men up their standards of modesty to match that of women, or say, cover their hair after marriage. Even the idea seems mildly absurd to me, and I'm someone who's willing to entertain the idea. It is just more acceptable for women to adopt male territory than for men to adopt female territory. For men, it seems like being effeminate, not like creating equality.

And yet, I don't want to necessarily create a mono-gendered society. I think that pushing things that far is rather ridiculous, for the most part. I do see gender difference has having more of a place in private spheres than public ones. But what those differences ought to be, and how to establish those differences without leaving unequal burdens is a problem that I don't see a particular full solution to. Maybe it'll take a few more generations before we can see the way to best make those changes. It's been such a short time, in the history of Judaism, or anything, that we've been working on egalitarianism in this way- it's no surprise, I suppose, that the kinks haven't been worked out yet. At the same time, I can sometimes be very impatient about it.

Comments

Ooh! I'm first!

[skyblue-dreamer.livejournal.com]

First off, I believe that "masculinize" is a word, too, though we hear it less often.

Second, my understanding of some of the reasoning behind laws of modesty for women is that the laws are to keep the men from being led astray by inappropriately dressed women and to remind the women that there is a certain way Jewish women are supposed to dress (this is part of what the term "dat yehudit" refers to—norms that Jewish women follow). If I have not understood anything incorrectly, the rabbis believed that women were better than men at resisting temptation.

Thirdly, I've been having a lot of the same struggles as you about headcoverings, though mine have been more internal (and less posted online). I feel like I should cover my head (not hair) during services, but I don't own non-bandanna scarves, and I'm not comfortable wearing a kippah as a headcovering outside of services. (I haven't had time to go look for scarves, but I am going shopping for other things on Sunday.) Even in services, I'm more comfortable with something more feminine. Granted, I don't have the tefillin issue, since I don't wear tefillin (and have been really bad about doing non-Shabbat/non-chag morning services).

Lastly, there are biological gender differences, and ignoring them completely is a mistake. Being conscious of them is not. I'd write more, but I have to get ready for Shabbat.

Re: Ooh! I'm first!

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Well, this is my forum for annoying my friends about my issues all at once, rather than individually at awkward times. Gets me more good insight, and it helps me to write in general. THis is in many ways taking the place of what used to be a much more active correspondance.

For me it's not so much a male/female issue in shul, or in regard to type of kippot (I just follow my taste, and see where it leads me), and outside of shul, I would wear kippot except that I feel that it would attract more attention than I'd like- sort of the opposite of tzniut in some ways. I like attention, but not random strangers oggling my headwear. That said- if you're doing it jsut for yourself- Rabbi Lehmann's suggestion to me the Last time I was contemplating this sort of thing was to invest in a few large hairclips. If you're doing it for yourself, not for the world to see, it's a really reasonable option. For me, most of mine, even the large ones just don't feel significant enough, emotionally. If only I liked wearing big bows in my hair- but I don't.

I think that one should be very aware of gender differences- just that they shouldn't be relevant unless they're Actually relevant. So if it is no longer an affront to the community for a woman to read torah, if it doesn't suggest that the men are incapable, then I don't see the relevance of the distinction. That's sort of the principle I see here.

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

no one has suggested that men up their standards of modesty to match that of women, or say, cover their hair after marriage.

As most observant Jewish men already cover their heads, the distinction would seem academic.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Not when you look at the thoroughness with which some women cover their hair. Have you ever seen a kippah that covers every single hair? Or even ones that leave a tefakh or less showing, very often? There is still a distinction, I'd say, except maybe among the men who wear hats almost all the time.

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

True, but I would say — and I admit I'm speculating — that the set of women interested in equalizing halakhah and the set of women who painstakingly cover every hair do not overlap in any significant way. Even a fair number of modern orthodox married women cover their hair with ordinary hats.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

You have a point there: I was more suggesting that these notions that seem critical to halakha regarding women (this may be overly influenced by 2 years of orthodox women's halakha shiurim) touch on these areas, just as obligations involving prayer and prayer garb are central for traditional notions of Jewish manhood. And yet one has been appropriated, and the other hasn't. I think it's a social value statement- that prayer participation is more valued than notions of modesty.

Oh, and . . .

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you got so many copies of that reply. I made an error, and made an error in my first attempt to correct it.