Halakhic Thought

[debka_notion]

So the egal minyan at JTS does not give the first and second aliyot to a kohen and levi, respectively. However today the person to whom they gave the first aliyah was a kohen. And they went on about their usual progression, so the next person was not a levi, nor did they give the second aliyah to the same person. And I understand not giving out aliyot based on that status issue, and since it was established for the sake of peace, I wouldn't complain about a minyan that does not hold by it for the sake of peace. But once you do call a kohen for the aliyah- I do wonder what the best choice of action would have been. On the other hand, they had handed out the aliyot in advance, and I know that once you call someone, you don't replace them, even if you should have called someone else- so maybe handing out the aliyot has some of the same status. It's just an interesting thing to think about.

Comments

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

I think this is said about gelilah, probably because it's the weediest honor ;-) (and I think, unlike hagbah, there's no halakhic significance to gelilah, but I need to check that).

Litvaks give their rebbe the 3rd aliyah and hasidim give their rebbe the 6th. When I was at the CY, I gave R. Roth the 3rd aliyah and R. Schindler the 6th. I don't think anyone got it, perhaps including themselves ;-)

It's Gelilah.

[gimmelgirl.livejournal.com]

Actually in the Talmud (Megillah 52a), Rabbi Yehoshuah ben Levi states:
"Of the ten people who form a minyan to read in the Torah, the one who rolls up the scroll gains more merit than all the rest put together."

Re: It's Gelilah.

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

Because it's so tricky! I think whoever does petiha should get even more zekhut, since the mechanics are different in every synagogue and the poteah is therefore prone to look silly.

Re: It's Gelilah.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

If trickiness is the criteria, then distributing the hallah on Shabbat should by far be rewarded by more sekhar than any other activity!

Re: It's Gelilah.

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

Or making kiddush and then realizing you never asked what this household does with the wine after the mekadesh drinks some.

Re: It's Gelilah.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

A) That's why, barring some unusual circumstance (such as a guest who has not yet made kiddush and therefore might have a higher obligation), one of the ba'alei habayit should make kiddush (and motzi).

B) It can't hurt to just put it down -- then someone more in the know can just pick it up and do whatever, right?

Re: It's Gelilah.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

A. What if, as often happens at places I am, the ba'alei habayit don't actually have established minhagim? That makes it both impossible to get wrong and rare to feel like you got it Right either.

B. Unless you're seated between other guests who also don't know... There's a way to make Everything uncomfortable, given very little effort.

Re: It's Gelilah.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

A. That's why they should do it -- so they can have the (dis)pleasure of feeling that way! :-)

B. Maybe walk the cup over and put it down in front of the ba`alei habayit?

C. Maybe it's time to put together a booklet of minhagei kiddush (kiddush ke-hilkhato, anyone?) that can be carried with you. You could have minhagei Ashkenaz, Sefarad, Lita, Teiman, etc., etc. So many possibilities! ;-)

Re: It's Gelilah.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

C. Sounds like a good project. In fact, it sounds like something I'd love to work on. The question is, how exactly one does that sort of research besides maybe interviewing folks. The question is- who would be best to talk to- old folks who remember what they did as kids, or people who claim to have preserved minhag x as it was supposed to be done...

Re: It's Gelilah.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

Fascinating. My idea was to open the Shulhan Arukh, find the right siman, and then look at later and earlier sources. I guess I have a more formal/textual definition of minhag than you do :-)

Re: It's Gelilah.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Well, the ideal project, in my eyes, would be to do both, compare them, and try and figure out what changed/why it changed/what was going on with the difference.

Have I mentioned that a chunk of my undergraduate work involved Jewish sociology?

Re: It's Gelilah.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

Took me a sec to find it (it's Megillah 32a). To paraphrase another movie, I think "that's not the gelilah you're looking for." Rashi there: "The one who rolls the Torah -- from one subject to another, which is done by an individual with the sefer Torah resting on his knees."

[shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com]

Litvaks give their rebbe the 3rd aliyah and hasidim give their rebbe the 6th.

That's not always true. Some Lubovitchers give their rebbe the third. :)

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Jewish practices.

Ba-dum-cha, thank you David Berger!

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

I thought it was assur to do necromancy.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

It's not necromancy if he ain't dead!

(I feel like that should be the punchline to some sick joke, possibly involving necrophilia . . . hmmmm . . .)

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Sadly/fortunately I don't know any actual jokes about necrophilia- at least not well enough to produce them.

If you come up with a joke for that one, you'll have to let me know.

[hotshot2000.livejournal.com]

I do:

Guy goes to a brothel, says what can I get for $5. They show him to a room, he starts to do the deed, and suddenly something goes wrong. He pulls up his trousers and runs out. The brothel manager seems him go, sighs to herself, and says: "Damn, Sally's full again."

I cleaned it up as much as possible, but no, it's not so much funny as grotesque. Please feel free to delete this, it's really bringing down the property values of the rest of the threads.