Why I Don't Understand Why People Call This Place So Liberal

[debka_notion]

As I was getting my lunch today, Steve comes over to me, takes a look at my shirt, which says "Brandeis University Conservative Organization" on the front and "Hebrew is Gender Specific, BUCO is not" on the back, and says to me "You know, we have a shirt like that for BOO too, only on the back it says 'G-d doesn't hate us'". (BOO is the Brandeis Orthodox Organization.) I tried to joke back something, but I was rather offended. It isn't like this is the first time he's said something offensive to me either: last time it was a whole string of bigotted comments about Indians, Pakistanis, Muslims, Asians and other immigrants. I'm getting to the point where I really want to do something about it, but I'm not really sure what to do. File some sort of complaint to the student senate about religious persecution? It seems a bit ridiculous here, but I'm not sure what else to call this one. Talk to the Orthodox rabbi here? I don't know what he'd do... Ideas?

Comments

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

I think that's rude, but then again I don't think anyone with a BUCO shirt could complain too hard. But the BUCO and BaRuCh shirts are not exactly oh-so-loving of the Orthodox. (And as people have pointed out to me, BUCO's is more mean-spirited that BaRuCh's)

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Mean spirited? It's a joke, mostly on ourselves because we don't have enough trad folks who are willing to make sure Trad runs smoothly and with a minyan to keep it active... Trad is conservative too.

Making a statement of religious identity is not saying that anyone else is wrong, let alone that G-d hates them. Implying that G-d hates me because I'm not orthodox is fairly equivalent to the kid in my elementary school who used to yell at me that Jesus loved him...

AS far as I'm concerned, both shirts are just sort of gentle jokes on Jewish identity. If I'd thought it was mean-spirited towards anyone, I wouldn't have gotten the shirt.

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

Maybe you look that sort of sensitivity because you're NOT Ortho. (I know this sounds harsh)
I know people who were offended, and I was a little bit miffed. The BUCO shirt- while witty- implies that Orthodoxy is outdated and that there's something wrong with it.

But as I said, he DID say something rude. Two wrongs don't make it right.

[thevortex.livejournal.com]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, folks! While everyone is looking for the super-significance of the shirt, ALL IT SAYS IS THAT BUCO IS EGALITARIAN.

The Vortex

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

Actually, it says:
"Hebrew is gender-specific, BUCO is not"

[thevortex.livejournal.com]

Even simpler!

And then the only people who should have been offended were the Traddies (and this TRAD gabbai emeritus isn't).

The Vortex

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Considering that I've gotten nasty comments for whatever my Judaic position is at any point in my life, I'd like to think that I'm fairly sensitive to such things.

Implies that Orthodoxy is outdated and there's something wrong with it? I don't think so- it says that we're egal, and that's about it. It doesn't suggest that we want anything of anyone else- just that we're not gender specific... It's a purely recursive statement.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

And really? You're saying that I shouldn't complain that I got told that G-d hates me because I have a shirt that is willing to state that I'm egalitarian?

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

(it's a good thing I saw this, because you didn't reply to me directly.)

your shirt DOESN'T just state you're egal. It states also what you are NOT. Same with Baruch, but their's was done in a slightly-friendlier way.

But I didn't say you shouldn't complain at all. Just not too hard. He wouldn't have said it if he hadn't seen your shirt first, right? (And I don't mean that it was an "I'm Egal" shirt, more that the shirt said what it said)

But I don't know this Steve person, and he is definitely a jerk for saying something like that. Still, if BOO ever did make a shirt making fun of the other two denominations, the way they BOTH did this year, I don't think it wouldn't be anything dissimilar to what he said. (well, probably with slightly more tact)

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

What we're not- gender specific. Opposite of gender-specific is gender-irrelevant, aka egal.

So if I hide who I am, I won't have to deal with offensive comments? By that standard, shouldn't we all be trying to look like gentiles? I thought that the idea of civilized society in the US was that we didn't have to be afraid to go outside looking like ourselves because we might be persecuted... Sorry- I know I'm exagerating a ton, but that's the sort of thinging that your comment engedered for me.

I still don't think that either BUCO or BARUCH were trying to make fun of BOO. I'm willing to ask the leadership of both groups if that was the case, if you'd like, though. If it was, I'll stop wearing my BUCO shirt around campus at the very least.

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

I anticipated that reaction- that's what I meant when I specified that the shirt WASN'T an "I'm Egal" shirt. If it was just "I'm Egal"- I hope to Gd he wouldn't have said that.

But the text of the shirt implied something else, as I've said. Yes, I know that it DOES mean that y'all are Egal... but while it seems to be proud of your gender-irrelevance, at the same time it does criticise those that are gender-relevant, namely- BOO. (since there's no Trad around, despite an already-graduated gabbai, I think that there aren't too many Traddies getting offended.)

And of course I don't think you should go to the leaders. What I'm saying here- to you, my friend, and being honest- is I hope relatively private.
And should you stop wearing the shirt? No, it's cute and funny. But it's not completely innocent, either, and you should be aware that its content is somewhat loaded.

(BTW- your other comment DID reply to mine, but my e-mail took its time processing it ><)

[doodah.livejournal.com]

Sarabeth, how does it possibly imply a criticism of those who are "gender-relevant"?!

All it states are two somewhat disconnected ideas.
1. Hebrew is gender-specific.
2. BUCO is not.

There's no mention of one being better than the other! I do think it's completely innocent. Bizarre, but completely innocent. Honestly, I don't think BUCO cares about us very much. :)

[bobtheslinky.livejournal.com]

:shrug:

Call me a prickly pear, but I did pick up on some animosity in the shirt.
It doesn't mean I don't LIKE the shirt. If I were Egal, I sure would get it.

But if I picked up on something, I'm sure someone else might have, too.

(And I'm sorry, guys, but it doesn't really matter how many people tell me that the shirt was meant innocently. I can't change the way I initially felt over the shirts. I was a little taken back, but then relaxed enough to enjoy them.)