Do you know what a doppelganger is? More accurately, how troubled should I be that many of my rabbinical school classmates a. don't know what a doppelganger is, and b. try to spell it as two words?

Just a thought from the insane place in my mind that is me trying to avoid exams...

From: [identity profile] margavriel.livejournal.com


Oy. Yes, of course I know what a doppelgänger is. And oy.

Good luck on exams!

(FYI, if you're in a font or system in which it's unwieldy to include the umlaut, the convention is to replace |ä| with |ae|, not just |a|, so: doppelgaenger. Oh, look, Wikipedia says that your spelling is also an acceptable alternative in English. OK.)

From: [identity profile] fiddledragon.livejournal.com


I definitely know what one is. I know what considerably more obscure fantastic creatures are as well, but I thought that one was pretty well-known.

(And it's pretty clearly a German word. When in doubt, assume that a German noun is one word. I thought that was fairly well-known, too, if only as something to mock the Germans about.)

From: [identity profile] cynara-linnaea.livejournal.com


Please tell me you are talking about the Machon Schechter students, who at least have the excuse of not speaking a Germanic native tongue. If not, I might have to give up on our Movement now.

On another note, [livejournal.com profile] fiddledragon, your Shadowchild icon seems very apropos.

From: [identity profile] gimmelgirl.livejournal.com


You forgot the accent over the a. And now I'm not sure I know how to do it on my computer.
:goes to figure out how to add accents on her computer:

From: [identity profile] gimmelgirl.livejournal.com


:shocked gasp:

You would even ASK?!
MAC, of course!!
Chas veSHALOM I would never use a pc!!!!

;o)

From: [identity profile] debka-notion.livejournal.com


How does one umlaut with a PC? It sounds like a useful skill to have floating around in case I someday need it...

From: [identity profile] margavriel.livejournal.com


ä = ALT+0228
ë = ALT+0235
ï = ALT+0239
ö = ALT+0246
ü = ALT+0252

My fingers know these combinations by heart, except the ï (which hardly ever has a use in any language which I would be typing).

Is that an odd metaphor, for fingers to have a heart?

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


One doesn't umlaut so much as write the letter ä (or ö, or whatever). You can do it in one of two ways: either open the Character Map program, which allows you to select any character available in any given font, or hold down [Alt] and press the appropriate numerical sequence for a given character (which character map will tell you in case you don't know). Lowercase umlauted A, for example, is [Alt]+0228.

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


I tend to leave this one alone. "Doppelgänger" means a ghostly projection of oneself in European mythology, but in common English parlance it's just a word for someone who uncannily resembles someone else.

The annoying bit is that I've so far only seen one "celebrity doppelgänger" posting in which the resemblance really is that good.

From: [identity profile] gimmelgirl.livejournal.com


I look like Kate Maberly from The Secret Garden movie. Really. I do. And my friend Rachel IS Rachel from Glee.

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


Then why did you post a picture of Red Fraggle?

The really close resemblance I noted is, in fact, between a friend and Lea Michele.

From: [identity profile] gimmelgirl.livejournal.com


I've posted three doppelgangerim over the past four days, including Kate Maberly and Red Fraggle (which, if you look at the picture I recently posted of myself, you will also note bears a resemblance).... Kate's photo is still in my profile pics.

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


doppelgangerim

Oh, you did not just do that.

I'll give you four stars out of five for the Kate Maberly photo. With Red it's more of a spiritual connection, I think.

From: [identity profile] gimmelgirl.livejournal.com


doppelgangerim

I so did just do that.

You didn't see the pigtail pic? I'm SO Red!!

And Kate Maberly, back when I had bangs, it was unCANNY.

From: [identity profile] lordameth.livejournal.com


I thought it a pretty commonly known concept. I mean, I don't know the original German meaning, the legend or fairy tale or whatever, but in its modern English meaning, I thought it a relatively common word.

Also, just to be snarky, let me point out that there are no ümläuts in English. No accent marks of any kind. Granted, admittedly, I am a stickler for correct romanization of Japanese (ningyo にんぎょ and ningyô にんぎょう are different words with different meanings). But when it comes to words fully absorbed into the English language, I don't think there need to be diacritics. If you wouldn't italicize it as a foreign word, then it doesn't get diacritics IMHO.

From: [identity profile] wilperegrine.livejournal.com


You can’t just add a U?

One of my goals before leaving NY is to go to Ellis Island and demand my umlaut back. I explained this to my mother, who not only didn’t get the joke but also disagreed with my assertion that they probably have boxes and boxes of them stored somewhere in the building.

From: [identity profile] lordameth.livejournal.com


Strangely enough, I just learned that that "ou" spelling is not part of any major accepted romanization system. Not Hepburn or Modified or Revised Hepburn; not Kunrei-shiki or Nihon-shiki. My teacher calls it "PC romaji".

Also, I've been to Ellis Island several times, and while there were plenty of staff only areas I couldn't get into, I do think I may have once spied some staff members moving around suspicious looking boxes labeled "weird symbols." If I were you, I'd go and demand it back.

As long as we're on the subject, there's a scholar whose articles I often read named Kären Wigen. How is that supposed to be pronounced? How is it different from just plain old Karen?

From: [identity profile] margavriel.livejournal.com


If you e-mail me, I can send you a recording of the sound.

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


In German, ä is pronounced exactly as if there were an e in its place. This includes the diphthong pattern äu, which is oy just like eu. So while in that language the name Karen would be pronounced KAH-ren, Kären is something like KEH-ren, which is actually closer to the way English speakers (especially Midwesterners) say the name.

From: [identity profile] cynara-linnaea.livejournal.com


Is that "PC romaji" as in 'personal computer' or 'politically correct?' ^.^

My first teach-yourself-Japanese book and CD set was in Kunrei-shiki and it drove me bonkers. Much prefer Modified Hepburn.

Still, there's a limit to how much trouble you can get into romanizing Japanese. I found Chinese romanization much more confusing my freshman year. Before my TA explained Wade-Giles and Pinyin, I read about Ssu Ma Ch'ien in one text book and Sima Qian in another with no clue they were the same guy. They seemed to be doing a heck of a lot of the same stuff...

From: [identity profile] lordameth.livejournal.com


As in personal computer. I guess to some extent it makes sense, given that it's only with typewriters and computers, not with handwriting, that it is in any way more difficult to write out diacritics, thus creating a need or want for writing out "ou".

Also, I do firmly believe that whoever invented Wade-Giles (presumably two guys by the names of Wade and Giles) need to be shot. Sure, pinyin includes some bizarre things, like the Qi in Qian, and sure, Chinese has some truly bizarre sounds that can't really be expressed properly in English/Roman letters at all, but Ssu? Really? Pinyin looks so much cleaner and more straightforward. (Disclaimer: I've not yet studied Chinese, so if someone who better understands the pronunciation says Wade-Giles better represents the sounds, I'll believe them.)

From: [identity profile] cynara-linnaea.livejournal.com


I've never studied Chinese, but for the raw beginner, Wade-Giles helps you sound like a bit less of a dolt. The average English speaker will have no clue how to pronounce "Qian," but they might be able to make a go of "Ch'ien."

If you have plenty of time, a good dose of stubbornness, and a)someone to explain it to you, or b)a good understanding of IPA, Pinyin is much more precise. It has better diacritics for indicating tonality, and a nearly one-to-one correspondence for both consonants and vowels. Trouble is, there are way more than 5 vowel sounds, and the correspondences are idiosyncratic, and it's crazy-making to memorize all of them. That said, it's the closest we can get without actually learning Chinese.

There are also hefty political implications behind Pinyin and Wade-Giles, worse than behind Hepburn and Kunrei-shiki, if I am not mistaken.

From: [identity profile] lordameth.livejournal.com


There are indeed hefty political implications, as you say. I think it was only relatively recently that Taiwan adopted pinyin, given that it's a system invented by (?) or at least heavily endorsed by the PRC Communist government.

As far as I know, there aren't really any political implications behind Hepburn vs Kunrei... it's more of a linguistic and cultural thing. Hepburn is much better from an English speaker's point of view, as spellings like chi, tsu, and shi much better indicate to an English speaker how these sounds should be pronounced than ti, tu, and si. Kunrei, on the other hand, is preferred from the Japanese point of view, as it more cleanly follows the kana system, spelling out ta chi tsu te to (in Hepburn) as ta ti tu te to, without acknowledging, understanding, or caring one whit how counter-intuitive that is for anyone native to a Romance/Germanic language.

From: [identity profile] margavriel.livejournal.com


In which case, you should add an "e" after the vowel. (Perhaps this is a special case, since the Wikipedia allows "doppelganger" as an alternate spelling.)

From: [identity profile] shirei-shibolim.livejournal.com


English does have diacriticals for fully absorbed words, and with reason. The words resume and résumé, for example, are pronounced differently and have completely different meanings.

There's also a convention, mostly disused today (though The New Yorker still employs it) of writing diaereses to avoid compound vowel confusions. To boot: coöperateinstead of cooperate, since the latter looks as if it ought to be pronounced KOO-pə-rate.

From: [identity profile] margavriel.livejournal.com


And yet "resume" is still an acceptable English spelling for "résumé" (though I would always use the accented form).
.