Linguistic Similarities?

[debka_notion]

In the course of looking for definitions of love for my latest website project (Sparked by something Efi wrote, go figure), I was just reading some random stuff online, which was talking about how one older Greek word for "to kiss" (I originally wrote "kissing", but then I'd have to match it with the same sort of verbal noun later on, and "impregnating" just sounds Odd.) fell out of use because it sounded too much like the verb "to impregnate". I seem to remember a similar issue in French. Oh you linguists out there- know you if this is a common problem? (Either having those words sound alike, or having the slang for one mean the other) Any ideas if this might have something to do with actual etymology, or just coincidence?

Comments

[belu.livejournal.com]

Not offhand, but what's the data?

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Here's the bit that prompted the thought:
"In the Hellenistic period, the verb kunein ("to kiss") was falling out of use because it sounded like kuein ("to impregnate"), especially in the aorist where the forms are exactly alike. This no doubt resulted in various unsavory puns. So people started to use the word filein ("to love") to refer to kissing. Then the word agapan ("to be content with") they began to use to refer to love. In the koine of the NT, both agapan and filein were in common use as words for love."

And the French for kiss is I think "besser" but it's been a while, and our French-English dictionary is currently on the lam. I don't remember the actual word for sex, so I don't remember if they sound alike or not- but to say "to kiss" is taken for "to have sex with" or something like that.

[coeus559.livejournal.com]

I remember some stuff from Historical Linguistics, but my book is not in my room right now - it's in the lab, because I brought all my books there at the end of the semester so I wouldn't have to move them. I'll get an answer to you tomorrow when I can get my book, but I do remember when we were talking about historical semantics changes and they did talk about something with words sounding like other words and then falling into disuse for that reason.

-Alex

[fleurdelis28.livejournal.com]

"Make love to" certainly doesn't mean what it used to. And there are those words in the Torah that you can't read out loud anymore...

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Heh- now I'm rather curious... The changing definition of "making love" I knew... (Collecting a list of terms for making out would be an interesting project. But if I started that one on my website, I'd have to do a few for less related things, or people would start getting very odd ideas about me, especially if I take that Carnal Israel class in the fall.)

[fleurdelis28.livejournal.com]

Yishgalenah being read as yishkavenah is the main one for inadvertant smut purposes. It's in the curses in the sixth aliyah of Ki Tavo, as well as in one of the haftorot for Sukkot.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

Luckily Hillel took care of that aliyah this year- although I was gabbaying, and didn't catch any issues- presumably it's 'corrected' in the chumash too, I guess.

But he did give someone the aliyah- I thought that usually either the torah reader or some particularly upstanding person in the community got that one? Steve is a good guy, but I don't think he's got That good a reputation...

[fleurdelis28.livejournal.com]

I've heard two theories -- either that the reader gets the aliyah to balance the curses, or the reader gets the aliyah (and is called up as Mishehu Rotzeh, not by name) so that it doesn't sound like he's cursing the oleh. Both of these entail the reader getting the aliyah, but since it's all custom I suppose there could be still more variations.

[fleurdelis28.livejournal.com]

Also -- in terms of shifting meaning, that may occur because one is used for a euphamism for the other, and eventually the legal fiction aspect wore through.

[belu.livejournal.com]

And, of course, these days, you can sleep with someone without actually sleeping, but you can't sleep with them without having sex with them.

[lordameth.livejournal.com]

Doubt it's of any help, but i felt the need to contribute anyway;

as far as I'm aware, most of the common Japanese words for such things come directly from the English - words like "sekusu", "fakku", "kisu". The word for impregnate, interestingly enough, literally comes from "to imbue with life".

I've definitely heard of people having issues with the Japanese word for..um.. girl parts... sounding too much like far more everyday words. But anyway.

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

In Arabic if you mispronounce the word for husband (zawzh-ok, literally the masculine version of "one of a pair"), you get the word for sex (zoozh). (In both of these, zh is pronounced as in the s in vision.)

[chinchillama.livejournal.com]

Just to add to the confusion-
a classics prof told my class that the term pigs/piglets in reference to girls carried the conotation of our cat like applelation... ahhh, changing slang

[debka-notion.livejournal.com]

"our cat like applelation"- I'm confused. Is that appelation as related to the French 'appeler' (of however it's spelled)? 'Twasn't in my dictionary? Or does it have to do with apples? If the former, I think I finally got it, if not, I'm darn confused.

[chinchillama.livejournal.com]

it is, of course, me making a typo while using the mac in the lab :)

I think you figured it out

Spanish

[thevortex.livejournal.com]

Besar: to kiss
Embarazar: to impregnate

Not entirely dissimilar.

*avoids making fun of Macs* :P

Huzzah!

The Vortex

Re: Spanish

[slashtacular.livejournal.com]

Just remember kids, this pen will never leak in your pocket and impregnate you!

[tirerim.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this definitely happens, occasionally, though I don't think it's that major in terms of vacabulary shifts. The best example I know of today is 'niggardly' in English, which is just about impossible to use anymore because of its resemblance to the n-word, despite a complete lack of etymological relation. Of course, in some cases the words might be etymologically related, if one word split into two meanings, one of them better than the other, but they continued to sound alike. I can't think of any examples of this off the top of my head, but there are similar cases, like 'queen' and 'cunt' (which both come from the same Old English word), and 'hussy' and 'housewife', which both come from OE 'huswif' -- it originally just meant 'wife', but then came to mean (and to be pronounced) 'hussy', sometime after which 'housewife' was derived from the original form as a replacement.

[shekkichebaz.livejournal.com]

an interesting example of an inverse of this would be cockney 'rhyming' slang. words are used specifically because that word or part of a commonly used phrase containing that word sound like a different more common word.